{"id":284,"date":"2018-05-07T23:58:55","date_gmt":"2018-05-07T23:58:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommunications\/?post_type=podcast&p=284"},"modified":"2026-01-29T16:46:09","modified_gmt":"2026-01-29T16:46:09","slug":"peter-murray-rust-explains-contentmine-and-the-open-access-universe","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommunications\/podcast\/peter-murray-rust-explains-contentmine-and-the-open-access-universe\/","title":{"rendered":"Peter Murray-Rust Explains ContentMine and the Open Access Universe"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"Peter<\/p>\n

Transcript:<\/strong><\/p>\n

Benson: Copyright\u00a0Chat\u00a0is\u00a0a\u00a0podcast\u00a0dedicated\u00a0to\u00a0discussing\u00a0important\u00a0copyright matters.\u00a0Host,\u00a0Sara Benson,\u00a0the\u00a0Copyright\u00a0Librarian\u00a0from the\u00a0University\u00a0of Illinois, converses\u00a0with experts\u00a0from\u00a0across the globe\u00a0to\u00a0engage the\u00a0public\u00a0with rights issues relevant\u00a0to\u00a0their\u00a0daily\u00a0lives.<\/p>\n

Welcome\u00a0to\u00a0Copyright\u00a0Chat.\u00a0Today\u00a0we\u00a0have\u00a0Peter\u00a0Murray-Rust, a\u00a0researcher from Cambridge\u00a0University. He\u2019s\u00a0visiting\u00a0me\u00a0live\u00a0today\u00a0in\u00a0my\u00a0office. Welcome, Peter.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0Hi there. Thanks\u00a0very much,\u00a0Sara.<\/p>\n

Benson:\u00a0Thank\u00a0you\u00a0for\u00a0coming.\u00a0So\u00a0you\u2019ve\u00a0done\u00a0some\u00a0really\u00a0interesting\u00a0work\u00a0with\u00a0open\u00a0access. You\u2019re\u00a0kind of,\u00a0I\u00a0would\u00a0designate\u00a0you\u00a0an\u00a0open\u00a0access\u00a0champion.<\/p>\n

And\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0one\u00a0of\u00a0your\u00a0most\u00a0interesting\u00a0projects,\u00a0at\u00a0least\u00a0to\u00a0me,\u00a0has\u00a0been\u00a0your content\u00a0mining\u00a0project,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0thought\u00a0maybe\u00a0you\u00a0could\u00a0talk\u00a0a\u00a0little\u00a0bit\u00a0about\u00a0that,\u00a0what\u00a0the impetus\u00a0for\u00a0it\u00a0was,\u00a0and what\u00a0kinds\u00a0of projects people\u00a0can\u00a0do\u00a0with\u00a0it.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0Right.\u00a0So\u00a0more general\u00a0than\u00a0open\u00a0access.\u00a0I\u2019m\u00a0an\u00a0open\u00a0advocate\u00a0on many\u00a0fronts:\u00a0open\u00a0source for code,\u00a0open\u00a0data\u00a0for experiments\u00a0and\u00a0other\u00a0types\u00a0of data that\u2019s\u00a0collected,\u00a0open\u00a0access\u00a0for\u00a0access to\u00a0the literature,\u00a0and always\u00a0of reducing\u00a0the\u00a0friction\u00a0from\u00a0going\u00a0from\u00a0one\u00a0place\u00a0to\u00a0another\u00a0when we\u2019re transmitting knowledge\u00a0and\u00a0creating\u00a0value\u00a0as\u00a0people\u00a0receive\u00a0knowledge and aggregate it and\u00a0filter it\u00a0and\u00a0so\u00a0on.<\/p>\n

Benson: And\u00a0you\u00a0are\u00a0very\u00a0passionate\u00a0about\u00a0this.\u00a0I saw you\u00a0speak\u00a0at IFLA,\u00a0and I remember\u00a0distinctly\u00a0you\u00a0saying\u00a0to\u00a0folks,\u00a0you\u00a0know, who\u2019s\u00a0a\u00a0student\u00a0in the\u00a0room, you\u2019re the\u00a0future\u00a0of\u00a0open\u00a0access,\u00a0and I\u00a0thought\u00a0that\u00a0was\u00a0really\u00a0inspirational. So\u00a0your content\u00a0mining\u00a0software,\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0an\u00a0open\u00a0source\u00a0software,\u00a0is\u00a0that\u00a0right?<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0That\u2019s right, yes.<\/p>\n

Benson: And\u00a0what\u00a0can\u00a0people\u00a0use\u00a0it\u00a0for,\u00a0and\u00a0what\u00a0what\u00a0led\u00a0you\u00a0to\u00a0develop\u00a0it?<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust: Ok,\u00a0so\u00a0the\u00a0software is\u00a0developed\u00a0for\u00a0a technical\u00a0purpose,\u00a0and\u00a0it\u2019s developed for\u00a0a political\u00a0purpose.\u00a0So\u00a0the\u00a0political\u00a0purpose\u00a0is\u00a0that\u00a0all published scientific knowledge\u00a0should\u00a0be\u00a0available to\u00a0everybody\u00a0on\u00a0the\u00a0planet.\u00a0So\u00a0I\u00a0call\u00a0it liberation\u00a0software,\u00a0software\u00a0whose\u00a0job\u00a0is\u00a0to\u00a0liberate\u00a0knowledge, and\u00a0make\u00a0it\u00a0to widely\u00a0available,\u00a0and\u00a0the\u00a0technical\u00a0purpose\u00a0is\u00a0to\u00a0be able\u00a0to\u00a0read\u00a0any\u00a0paper\u00a0in\u00a0the literature, and\u00a0turn\u00a0it\u00a0into\u00a0what\u00a0we\u00a0call\u00a0semantic\u00a0form.\u00a0Semantic means\u00a0that machines\u00a0can\u00a0understand\u00a0it.\u00a0That\u00a0means\u00a0that\u00a0the\u00a0words in\u00a0the\u00a0paper,\u00a0they know how to\u00a0process.\u00a0If\u00a0you\u00a0put\u00a0in\u00a0something\u00a0like\u00a0Anopheles, it\u00a0translates\u00a0it\u00a0into\u00a0a tropical mosquito,\u00a0for\u00a0example.<\/p>\n

Benson: Oh, ok. So\u00a0what\u00a0kinds\u00a0of\u00a0projects\u00a0have\u00a0your\u00a0software been\u00a0used\u00a0for to date,\u00a0and\u00a0what\u00a0do\u00a0you\u00a0see\u00a0the\u00a0future\u00a0of\u00a0your\u00a0software use being, I guess?<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust: Well,\u00a0our\u00a0vision\u00a0is\u00a0we\u00a0want\u00a0to\u00a0give\u00a0every\u00a0reader\u00a0in\u00a0the\u00a0world software which\u00a0can\u00a0help\u00a0them\u00a0read\u00a0the\u00a0scientific\u00a0literature.\u00a0There\u2019s\u00a0about probably five papers\u00a0published\u00a0each minute\u00a0in\u00a0science,\u00a0so\u00a0no\u00a0way\u00a0can\u00a0humans keep\u00a0up\u00a0with\u00a0it\u00a0without\u00a0using\u00a0machines.\u00a0So\u00a0the\u00a0first\u00a0job\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0machines\u00a0is\u00a0to\u00a0find this,\u00a0the papers\u00a0that\u00a0people\u00a0want\u00a0to\u00a0read.\u00a0So\u00a0it searches\u00a0repositories.\u00a0It\u00a0usually comes back\u00a0with\u00a0far more papers\u00a0than\u00a0people\u00a0want\u00a0to\u00a0read. So\u00a0the\u00a0next\u00a0part\u00a0of that is to filter it\u00a0so\u00a0that they\u00a0find\u00a0the\u00a0papers\u00a0which\u00a0are\u00a0most interesting\u00a0to\u00a0them for whatever\u00a0reason,\u00a0and\u00a0each reader\u00a0is\u00a0different,\u00a0so that\u00a0each\u00a0reader\u00a0will\u00a0have a different\u00a0set\u00a0of\u00a0filters\u00a0that\u00a0they\u00a0apply\u00a0so\u00a0they\u00a0find\u00a0the\u00a0papers\u00a0of interest\u00a0to\u00a0them. So shall I\u00a0give\u00a0an\u00a0example?<\/p>\n

Benson: Sure.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0Ok.\u00a0Well,\u00a0our\u00a0current\u00a0example\u00a0is\u00a0malarial\u00a0mosquitoes,\u00a0right? People are\u00a0interested\u00a0in\u00a0this\u00a0for\u00a0many\u00a0reasons.\u00a0They\u00a0want\u00a0to\u00a0find\u00a0out where\u00a0the mosquitoes are,\u00a0what\u00a0they\u00a0feed\u00a0on,\u00a0how\u00a0they\u00a0spread\u00a0disease,\u00a0how\u00a0people\u00a0can control them,\u00a0how\u00a0successful\u00a0it\u00a0is,\u00a0what\u00a0the\u00a0politics\u00a0of\u00a0malaria\u00a0are,\u00a0and\u00a0so\u00a0forth. So every\u00a0reader\u00a0will\u00a0have\u00a0a\u00a0different\u00a0view\u00a0on\u00a0this,\u00a0and\u00a0one\u00a0person\u00a0would\u00a0want\u00a0to look\u00a0at\u00a0the\u00a0mating\u00a0of\u00a0mosquitoes, another\u00a0would\u00a0want\u00a0to\u00a0look\u00a0at\u00a0insecticide resistance, another\u00a0would\u00a0want\u00a0to\u00a0look\u00a0at\u00a0the\u00a0eradication\u00a0programs\u00a0and\u00a0how successful they\u00a0had\u00a0been\u00a0and\u00a0so\u00a0forth.\u00a0So we\u2019re\u00a0trying\u00a0to\u00a0create\u00a0an\u00a0environment where\u00a0people\u00a0can\u00a0essentially\u00a0just\u00a0dial\u00a0in on a graphical\u00a0interface\u00a0those\u00a0things they\u2019re interested\u00a0in\u00a0and\u00a0so\u00a0forth. Now,\u00a0when\u00a0we\u00a0get\u00a0to\u00a0that stage,\u00a0if\u00a0it\u2019s widespread, the readers themselves\u00a0will\u00a0start\u00a0coming\u00a0up\u00a0with\u00a0new\u00a0ideas\u00a0and say, well,\u00a0we\u00a0would\u00a0like\u00a0to\u00a0do\u00a0this\u00a0with\u00a0the information,\u00a0we\u00a0would\u00a0like\u00a0to\u00a0link\u00a0it\u00a0here,\u00a0we would\u00a0like\u00a0to\u00a0translate\u00a0it\u00a0into\u00a0Cambodian.\u00a0It doesn\u2019t\u00a0matter\u00a0what, you know,\u00a0we want to\u00a0do\u00a0something\u00a0with\u00a0it that the\u00a0original\u00a0authors\u00a0hadn\u2019t\u00a0thought\u00a0of\u00a0and that\u2019s where\u00a0the\u00a0power\u00a0comes,\u00a0that it\u2019s\u00a0all\u00a0open\u00a0source\u00a0so\u00a0people\u00a0can\u00a0do\u00a0whatever they like,\u00a0and\u00a0we\u00a0do\u00a0our\u00a0best\u00a0to\u00a0make\u00a0it\u00a0easy\u00a0for\u00a0people\u00a0to\u00a0build\u00a0on\u00a0top\u00a0of\u00a0that\u00a0and\u00a0to create\u00a0new\u00a0ideas.<\/p>\n

Benson: And\u00a0so\u00a0have\u00a0you\u00a0had\u00a0some\u00a0of\u00a0these\u00a0new\u00a0creations\u00a0emanate\u00a0from\u00a0it\u00a0as of yet, and\u00a0what\u00a0are\u00a0some\u00a0of\u00a0those\u00a0things?<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0Well,\u00a0a\u00a0good\u00a0example\u00a0then\u00a0is\u00a0our\u00a0youngest reader is\u00a0from\u00a0the Netherlands, and\u00a0he\u2019s\u00a0fifteen.\u00a0He\u2019s\u00a0still\u00a0at\u00a0school,\u00a0but\u00a0he\u2019s\u00a0doing\u00a0research\u00a0on conifers and the\u00a0chemicals\u00a0that\u00a0they\u00a0produce.\u00a0So a\u00a0lot\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0chemicals\u00a0that\u00a0we use all\u00a0the\u00a0time\u00a0come\u00a0from conifers. They\u2019ve\u00a0got\u00a0names\u00a0like\u00a0pinene from\u00a0pine trees and so forth, and\u00a0they\u2019re\u00a0used\u00a0because\u00a0they\u2019ve\u00a0got\u00a0interesting\u00a0aromas or whatever. He\u2019s\u00a0been\u00a0studying\u00a0that from\u00a0the literature, so\u00a0he\u00a0built\u00a0a\u00a0resource where\u00a0he\u00a0could compare\u00a0the\u00a0chemicals\u00a0which\u00a0come\u00a0out\u00a0of\u00a0these\u00a0with\u00a0the\u00a0species that\u00a0produce them.\u00a0So\u00a0that\u2019s\u00a0a\u00a0simple\u00a0example.<\/p>\n

Benson: And\u00a0I\u00a0also\u00a0remember\u00a0from\u00a0your\u00a0presentation\u00a0at IFLA\u00a0that\u00a0you\u00a0mentioned us librarians\u00a0who\u00a0are\u00a0managing\u00a0repositories.\u00a0We could use your content\u00a0mining software to\u00a0mine\u00a0our\u00a0own\u00a0repositories.\u00a0Could you talk\u00a0a\u00a0little\u00a0bit\u00a0about\u00a0that?<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0Absolutely.\u00a0So over\u00a0the\u00a0last\u00a0fifteen\u00a0years,\u00a0most\u00a0universities\u00a0in\u00a0the world have created\u00a0something\u00a0called\u00a0an\u00a0institutional\u00a0repository,\u00a0and\u00a0in\u00a0that\u00a0go\u00a0a mixture of things\u00a0of\u00a0digital\u00a0artifacts.\u00a0Some\u00a0of\u00a0them are\u00a0research\u00a0papers.\u00a0A\u00a0large
\nimportant\u00a0part\u00a0of\u00a0them\u00a0is\u00a0theses,\u00a0Masters\u00a0and\u00a0Ph.D.\u00a0theses which are\u00a0deposited in that, but\u00a0there\u00a0can\u00a0also\u00a0be\u00a0other\u00a0digital artifacts,\u00a0you\u00a0know,\u00a0such\u00a0as\u00a0field studies or videos\u00a0or\u00a0whatever.\u00a0No,\u00a0we\u00a0believe\u00a0that a\u00a0valid\u00a0approach\u00a0is\u00a0for\u00a0those repositories\u00a0to\u00a0be\u00a0used\u00a0for\u00a0preservation,\u00a0but\u00a0preservation\u00a0is\u00a0only\u00a0a part\u00a0of\u00a0it.\u00a0We want them\u00a0to\u00a0be used\u00a0as\u00a0well,\u00a0and in\u00a0the\u00a0electronic\u00a0era,\u00a0we\u00a0can\u00a0reuse\u00a0repository information\u00a0just\u00a0as\u00a0easily\u00a0without\u00a0destroying\u00a0the\u00a0function\u00a0of\u00a0them as\u00a0archives. So,\u00a0for\u00a0example,\u00a0we\u00a0might\u00a0want to\u00a0look\u00a0at studies on\u00a0mosquitoes. Now\u00a0I\u00a0would imagine that in UIUC, there\u00a0are\u00a0many\u00a0theses\u00a0which\u00a0talk\u00a0about\u00a0mosquitoes. There are\u00a0many\u00a0theses\u00a0which\u00a0talk\u00a0about\u00a0insecticides, and\u00a0many\u00a0[\u2026] papers\u00a0which\u00a0talk about\u00a0tropical\u00a0disease,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0don\u2019t\u00a0know\u00a0whether\u00a0that\u00a0information\u00a0has\u00a0ever\u00a0all been published,\u00a0because\u00a0when\u00a0you\u00a0have\u00a0a\u00a0student\u00a0doing\u00a0a\u00a0Ph.D.,\u00a0often\u00a0towards the end,\u00a0they\u00a0write\u00a0it\u00a0up\u00a0in\u00a0the\u00a0thesis,\u00a0and\u00a0there\u00a0isn\u2019t\u00a0time\u00a0or\u00a0resources\u00a0to\u00a0get everything in\u00a0the thesis out into\u00a0scholarly\u00a0publications,\u00a0but\u00a0the\u00a0thesis\u00a0probably contains it in more\u00a0detail,\u00a0and obviously,\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0been\u00a0peer\u00a0reviewed, because\u00a0it\u2019s been examined by\u00a0experts,\u00a0right?\u00a0So and\u00a0the\u00a0student\u00a0puts\u00a0in\u00a0a\u00a0lot\u00a0of\u00a0effort\u00a0to make sure it\u2019s\u00a0high\u00a0quality\u00a0because\u00a0they\u00a0want\u00a0to\u00a0get\u00a0their\u00a0Ph.D.<\/p>\n

Benson: I\u00a0can\u00a0say\u00a0that\u00a0having\u00a0just\u00a0published\u00a0a\u00a0thesis\u00a0last\u00a0semester,\u00a0I know\u00a0that process well.\u00a0It was\u00a0a\u00a0Master\u2019s\u00a0thesis,\u00a0but I\u00a0do\u00a0think that\u00a0those\u00a0are\u00a0highly\u00a0vetted, whether\u00a0they\u00a0are\u00a0published\u00a0in\u00a0an\u00a0academic\u00a0journal or not.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0So\u00a0I would\u00a0say\u00a0that\u00a0we\u00a0could\u00a0get\u00a0a\u00a0huge\u00a0amount\u00a0of\u00a0information\u00a0if we join\u00a0together\u00a0all\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0repositories\u00a0in\u00a0the\u00a0world.\u00a0No,\u00a0different\u00a0countries\u00a0do\u00a0it\u00a0in different\u00a0ways.\u00a0In\u00a0U.K.,\u00a0every university\u00a0has\u00a0its\u00a0own\u00a0repository, and\u00a0that\u00a0is\u00a0useful if you\u2019re having an inward-looking\u00a0approach.\u00a0You\u00a0know,\u00a0this\u00a0is\u00a0what\u00a0the\u00a0university is, this\u00a0is\u00a0what\u00a0its\u00a0captured, but it\u2019s\u00a0quite\u00a0difficult\u00a0to\u00a0share\u00a0it\u00a0with\u00a0other\u00a0people, because there\u2019s\u00a0a\u00a0different\u00a0login\u00a0approach\u00a0to\u00a0each\u00a0university, [\u2026] different API, and different\u00a0metadata.<\/p>\n

In\u00a0some\u00a0countries,\u00a0like\u00a0the\u00a0Netherlands,\u00a0they\u2019re\u00a0in\u00a0the\u00a0central\u00a0repository\u00a0or\u00a0fronts. In\u00a0the\u00a0US,\u00a0it\u00a0tends\u00a0to\u00a0be\u00a0that\u00a0they\u2019re all per university.\u00a0So\u00a0again,\u00a0you\u00a0would have some thousand\u00a0institutions\u00a0that\u00a0you\u00a0would\u00a0have\u00a0to\u00a0crawl\u00a0to\u00a0get\u00a0this\u00a0out.\u00a0I\u00a0know\u00a0it would be\u00a0a\u00a0huge\u00a0value\u00a0in\u00a0being\u00a0able\u00a0to\u00a0link\u00a0to\u00a0those\u00a0universities\u00a0and\u00a0say\u00a0how\u00a0to use their APIs and\u00a0to\u00a0collect\u00a0it\u00a0all\u00a0in\u00a0one place.<\/p>\n

Benson:\u00a0That\u00a0would\u00a0be\u00a0an\u00a0amazing\u00a0undertaking,\u00a0but\u00a0it\u00a0seems\u00a0like\u00a0it\u00a0would\u00a0also require\u00a0quite\u00a0a\u00a0bit\u00a0of\u00a0collaboration\u00a0among\u00a0the\u00a0librarians\u00a0and\u00a0among\u00a0the\u00a0institution.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0Yes,\u00a0and part\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0dichotomy\u00a0in\u00a0the universities\u00a0is\u00a0that\u00a0universities are\u00a0individual\u00a0organizations, and\u00a0they\u00a0have\u00a0to\u00a0survive,\u00a0and\u00a0in\u00a0many\u00a0cases, they have to\u00a0compete\u00a0for\u00a0limited resources,\u00a0like\u00a0getting\u00a0the\u00a0best\u00a0students,\u00a0getting\u00a0the best grants,\u00a0perhaps\u00a0protecting\u00a0things\u00a0through\u00a0various\u00a0ways to earn money\u00a0and so on. So\u00a0often\u00a0[\u2026] universities see\u00a0other\u00a0universities\u00a0as\u00a0competitors\u00a0rather\u00a0than collaborators,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0don\u2019t\u00a0know\u00a0how\u00a0to\u00a0solve\u00a0that\u00a0problem.<\/p>\n

As I\u00a0said,\u00a0some\u00a0countries,\u00a0the\u00a0national interest trumps\u00a0the\u00a0universities.\u00a0Here,\u00a0I think it\u2019s the other way around.<\/p>\n

I\u00a0actually\u00a0think\u00a0that\u00a0universities\u00a0would\u00a0all benefit\u00a0by\u00a0pulling\u00a0this\u00a0type\u00a0of information, because\u00a0you\u00a0would\u00a0create\u00a0a\u00a0resource\u00a0which\u00a0everybody\u00a0used,\u00a0and\u00a0it would be\u00a0a\u00a0resource which\u00a0the\u00a0citizens\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0country\u00a0and\u00a0the\u00a0world\u00a0could\u00a0use\u00a0in a way that\u00a0they\u00a0don\u2019t\u00a0at\u00a0the\u00a0moment.\u00a0So\u00a0they\u00a0would\u00a0discover\u00a0new\u00a0things\u00a0by having all\u00a0of\u00a0this\u00a0information available.<\/p>\n

Benson: Yeah, and\u00a0I\u00a0also\u00a0think\u00a0there\u2019s\u00a0an\u00a0interesting\u00a0copyright\u00a0question\u00a0there, right, because\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0Melissa\u00a0Levine\u00a0has\u00a0published\u00a0a\u00a0paper\u00a0about\u00a0whether\u00a0or\u00a0not we\u00a0can\u00a0mine\u00a0data\u00a0from older\u00a0dissertations\u00a0and\u00a0theses,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0her\u00a0conclusion was\u00a0that\u00a0we\u00a0can,\u00a0under\u00a0current\u00a0copyright\u00a0law\u00a0or\u00a0even\u00a0with\u00a0copyright\u00a0law\u00a0at\u00a0the time. And\u00a0so\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0that\u00a0that\u2019s\u00a0a\u00a0good\u00a0thing,\u00a0right?\u00a0So\u00a0if\u00a0we\u00a0can,\u00a0legally,\u00a0I\u00a0agree with you,\u00a0we\u00a0should,\u00a0I\u00a0also\u00a0think\u00a0that\u00a0there\u00a0are\u00a0some\u00a0barriers\u00a0involved,\u00a0and\u00a0it seems like that\u2019s\u00a0a\u00a0lot of\u00a0information\u00a0to\u00a0mine, right?\u00a0So\u00a0how\u00a0fast\u00a0and how comprehensive could\u00a0say,\u00a0a\u00a0database,\u00a0be\u00a0if\u00a0we\u00a0could\u00a0get\u00a0all\u00a0that\u00a0content\u00a0fed\u00a0into it?<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust: So\u00a0the\u00a0first\u00a0question\u00a0is copyright.\u00a0Copyright actually\u00a0was\u00a0started in the UK\u00a0by\u00a0Queen Anne.\u00a0It\u2019s\u00a0called\u00a0the\u00a0Statute of Anne, and\u00a0it\u00a0was\u00a0to\u00a0promote the creation\u00a0of,\u00a0you\u00a0know,\u00a0of\u00a0creative\u00a0works,\u00a0and\u00a0it had\u00a0a\u00a0limited\u00a0period\u00a0of about twelve\u00a0to\u00a0fifteen\u00a0years,\u00a0and\u00a0unfortunately, that\u00a0has\u00a0been\u00a0lost,\u00a0and\u00a0we\u2019re ending\u00a0up now\u00a0in\u00a0this\u00a0century\u00a0with\u00a0copyright\u00a0as\u00a0a\u00a0way\u00a0of mega corporations owning knowledge, and\u00a0that\u2019s\u00a0everything\u00a0from scholarly\u00a0publishers\u00a0like\u00a0Elsevier, Nature, Wiley,\u00a0to\u00a0Disney,\u00a0to\u00a0Time\u00a0Warner,\u00a0to\u00a0all\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0people\u00a0who\u00a0quote own digital content. Copyright\u00a0is\u00a0incredibly\u00a0restrictive\u00a0because\u00a0all\u00a0creative\u00a0works\u00a0by\u00a0their nature are\u00a0copyright\u00a0as\u00a0soon\u00a0as\u00a0they\u2019re\u00a0created.\u00a0You\u00a0don\u2019t\u00a0have\u00a0to\u00a0register\u00a0them or whatever, and\u00a0the\u00a0user\u00a0has\u00a0to\u00a0somehow\u00a0or\u00a0other\u00a0satisfy\u00a0themselves\u00a0that\u00a0they can use\u00a0this,\u00a0and\u00a0copyright is\u00a0vested\u00a0in\u00a0huge\u00a0number\u00a0of\u00a0things\u00a0you\u00a0wouldn\u2019t\u00a0think, and I won\u2019t go into\u00a0the\u00a0absurdities,\u00a0but\u00a0this\u00a0is\u00a0probably\u00a0the\u00a0most\u00a0complex legislation on\u00a0the\u00a0planet, and\u00a0so\u00a0forth. So, the\u00a0advantage\u00a0that\u00a0you\u00a0have in\u00a0the case you\u00a0mention\u00a0is\u00a0that\u00a0the\u00a0copyright\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0theses\u00a0rest\u00a0with\u00a0the\u00a0students,\u00a0and\u00a0if you\u00a0talk\u00a0to\u00a0the\u00a0students\u00a0and\u00a0say, would\u00a0you\u00a0like\u00a0your\u00a0theses\u00a0to\u00a0be read\u00a0and\u00a0used and so\u00a0on,\u00a0most\u00a0students\u00a0will\u00a0say\u00a0yes.\u00a0Some\u00a0will\u00a0be\u00a0a\u00a0little\u00a0bit frightened,\u00a0and but they\u00a0won\u2019t\u00a0in\u00a0science\u00a0and\u00a0medicine\u00a0certainly\u00a0say, I\u00a0don\u2019t\u00a0want\u00a0people\u00a0to read\u00a0my theses\u00a0because\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0my\u00a0intellectual\u00a0property.\u00a0I\u00a0appreciate\u00a0that\u00a0in\u00a0some\u00a0disciplines\u00a0a\u00a0thesis\u00a0is\u00a0the\u00a0precursor\u00a0of\u00a0a\u00a0book\u00a0or\u00a0whatever, and\u00a0I\u2019m not\u00a0going\u00a0to comment on that. I\u2019m\u00a0going\u00a0to\u00a0talk about\u00a0fact-rich disciplines where\u00a0these\u00a0facts\u00a0are valuable\u00a0for the world.\u00a0So\u00a0the\u00a0negotiation\u00a0is\u00a0with\u00a0the\u00a0student\u00a0of\u00a0the university\u00a0and\u00a0not\u00a0with some mega-corporation.<\/p>\n

Benson:\u00a0Except\u00a0if\u00a0they\u00a0have\u00a0published\u00a0that\u00a0thesis\u00a0then\u00a0sometimes\u00a0they are allowed to\u00a0put\u00a0it\u00a0into\u00a0the repository, and sometimes\u00a0they\u2019re\u00a0not,\u00a0and\u00a0sometimes they\u2019re\u00a0forced to\u00a0embargo\u00a0it\u00a0and\u00a0all\u00a0sorts\u00a0of\u00a0other\u00a0things. So\u00a0again, comes\u00a0in the publisher\u00a0where,\u00a0as\u00a0you\u00a0mention\u00a0copyright\u00a0resides\u00a0with the\u00a0author\u00a0of it. Quite often, we\u2019re\u00a0asked\u00a0to\u00a0transfer\u00a0it\u00a0away, if\u00a0we\u00a0want\u00a0to\u00a0do\u00a0things\u00a0with and disseminate it,\u00a0which\u00a0is\u00a0the\u00a0beauty\u00a0of\u00a0the repository,\u00a0right,\u00a0in\u00a0that\u00a0we\u00a0have control over that\u00a0until\u00a0and\u00a0unless\u00a0we\u00a0sign\u00a0away\u00a0our\u00a0contract.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust: Indeed. So\u00a0we\u2019ve\u00a0got\u00a0an incredibly\u00a0dysfunctional\u00a0system which\u00a0was never\u00a0designed.\u00a0If\u00a0somebody\u00a0said,\u00a0let\u2019s\u00a0spend twenty\u00a0billion,\u00a0with\u00a0a\u00a0\u201cb,\u201d dollars\u00a0a year\u00a0paying\u00a0mega-corporations\u00a0to\u00a0stop\u00a0us\u00a0having\u00a0access\u00a0to\u00a0our\u00a0scholarly knowledge, you\u00a0wouldn\u2019t\u00a0get\u00a0many\u00a0votes\u00a0for\u00a0that,\u00a0but\u00a0that\u00a0is\u00a0the position\u00a0at\u00a0the moment, and\u00a0we\u2019ve\u00a0got\u00a0to\u00a0get\u00a0ourselves\u00a0out of it.\u00a0So\u00a0universities\u00a0have\u00a0got\u00a0to realize that\u00a0this\u00a0is\u00a0their\u00a0material,\u00a0and\u00a0it\u00a0is\u00a0not\u00a0the\u00a0publisher\u2019s\u00a0material.\u00a0If the publisher provides\u00a0a\u00a0valid\u00a0service,\u00a0fine. It needs\u00a0to\u00a0be\u00a0a\u00a0service\u00a0which is\u00a0judged\u00a0in the public\u00a0arena\u00a0for\u00a0value\u00a0for\u00a0money,\u00a0which\u00a0it\u00a0isn\u2019t\u00a0at\u00a0the\u00a0moment,\u00a0but\u00a0at\u00a0the moment, it\u2019s\u00a0simply\u00a0vanity publishing\u00a0where\u00a0you\u2019re\u00a0paying,\u00a0it\u00a0cost five\u00a0thousand dollars, I\u00a0was\u00a0told\u00a0today,\u00a0to\u00a0publish\u00a0a\u00a0scientific\u00a0communication\u00a0with\u00a0Nature Springer, and that\u00a0is\u00a0simply\u00a0for\u00a0the\u00a0glory\u00a0of\u00a0having\u00a0the\u00a0Nature\u00a0label\u00a0on\u00a0the publication. So\u00a0the\u00a0cycle\u00a0has\u00a0got\u00a0to\u00a0be\u00a0broken.<\/p>\n

Benson: Well,\u00a0the\u00a0most\u00a0vicious\u00a0part\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0cycle,\u00a0as\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0been explained\u00a0to\u00a0me, is that\u00a0I\u2019m\u00a0the\u00a0one\u00a0doing\u00a0the\u00a0labor,\u00a0right,\u00a0I\u2019m\u00a0the\u00a0one\u00a0doing\u00a0the\u00a0hard\u00a0work\u00a0of\u00a0the research\u00a0and\u00a0the\u00a0writing\u00a0and\u00a0and\u00a0editing\u00a0and\u00a0then\u00a0the\u00a0folks\u00a0who\u00a0are involved\u00a0later on are\u00a0my\u00a0peer\u00a0editors,\u00a0who\u00a0are\u00a0also\u00a0often\u00a0unpaid.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust: Yep.<\/p>\n

Benson:\u00a0And\u00a0doing\u00a0that\u00a0hard\u00a0labor,\u00a0and\u00a0then\u00a0you\u00a0might\u00a0have\u00a0someone\u00a0getting paid,\u00a0the\u00a0chief\u00a0editor\u00a0of the journal,\u00a0but\u00a0they\u2019re\u00a0quite\u00a0often\u00a0not\u00a0paid\u00a0a\u00a0lot, and\u00a0you know, maybe in\u00a0the\u00a0sciences,\u00a0they\u2019re\u00a0paid\u00a0a\u00a0lot\u00a0more,\u00a0but\u00a0in\u00a0humanities,\u00a0in\u00a0library science,\u00a0they\u00a0are\u00a0often\u00a0paid\u00a0very little,\u00a0and\u00a0then\u00a0you\u00a0have\u00a0the\u00a0publisher, who\u00a0is just making\u00a0all\u00a0the\u00a0money\u00a0and\u00a0off\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0sweat\u00a0and\u00a0labor\u00a0of\u00a0our\u00a0work,\u00a0and\u00a0then guess\u00a0what? They\u2019re\u00a0selling\u00a0it\u00a0back\u00a0to\u00a0me. They\u2019re\u00a0selling\u00a0my\u00a0work\u00a0back\u00a0to\u00a0me through my\u00a0library\u00a0who\u2019s\u00a0paying\u00a0for\u00a0the\u00a0subscription.\u00a0It\u00a0just\u00a0seems\u00a0ridiculous when you\u00a0think\u00a0of\u00a0it\u00a0that\u00a0way.\u00a0When\u00a0you\u00a0break\u00a0it\u00a0down\u00a0in that\u00a0way, you\u2019re\u00a0paying someone\u00a0for\u00a0the\u00a0things\u00a0that\u00a0you\u2019re\u00a0doing\u00a0for\u00a0free?\u00a0It\u00a0doesn\u2019t\u00a0make\u00a0any\u00a0sense. It\u2019s completely\u00a0illogical.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0Absolutely.\u00a0You\u2019ve given a brilliant exposition\u00a0of\u00a0this\u00a0dystopia. The question is, so\u00a0nobody designed\u00a0it. We\u2019ve fallen\u00a0into\u00a0this\u00a0by,\u00a0you\u00a0know,\u00a0no point in working\u00a0out\u00a0how\u00a0we\u00a0fell\u00a0into\u00a0it,\u00a0but\u00a0it\u00a0was\u00a0mainly\u00a0through inaction\u00a0and\u00a0people not thinking ahead,\u00a0coupled\u00a0with\u00a0what\u00a0I\u00a0would\u00a0call\u00a0twenty-first\u00a0century\u00a0corporate electronic greed,\u00a0you\u00a0know,\u00a0to\u00a0control\u00a0resources,\u00a0because\u00a0it\u2019s incredibly\u00a0cheap and easy\u00a0to\u00a0control\u00a0electronic\u00a0knowledge\u00a0and it is\u00a0very\u00a0difficult\u00a0to\u00a0get\u00a0out of\u00a0this system.<\/p>\n

So\u00a0universities\u00a0have\u00a0got\u00a0to\u00a0wake\u00a0up\u00a0to\u00a0the\u00a0fact\u00a0that\u00a0this\u00a0is\u00a0the\u00a0wrong\u00a0way\u00a0to\u00a0doing things,\u00a0and\u00a0it\u2019s unjust. Then\u00a0they\u2019ve\u00a0got\u00a0to\u00a0work\u00a0out\u00a0how\u00a0they\u00a0get\u00a0out of it.\u00a0I\u2019ve got some ideas\u00a0how\u00a0you\u00a0get\u00a0out\u00a0of\u00a0it,\u00a0but\u00a0they\u2019re\u00a0not,\u00a0you\u00a0know,\u00a0they\u2019re\u00a0not guaranteed to work,\u00a0but\u00a0until\u00a0the\u00a0universities\u00a0recognize\u00a0this,\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0going\u00a0to\u00a0be incredibly difficult\u00a0for\u00a0people outside\u00a0the\u00a0system\u00a0to\u00a0change.<\/p>\n

Benson: Well,\u00a0I\u2019m\u00a0very\u00a0open\u00a0to\u00a0your\u00a0ideas,\u00a0and,\u00a0you\u00a0know,\u00a0there\u00a0have\u00a0been\u00a0some protests\u00a0where journal\u00a0editors\u00a0have\u00a0resigned\u00a0en masse, from\u00a0Elsevier,\u00a0for instance, and said,\u00a0we\u2019re\u00a0just,\u00a0we\u2019re\u00a0done\u00a0with\u00a0this\u00a0system,\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0corrupt. What suggestions\u00a0do\u00a0you\u00a0have\u00a0for\u00a0open\u00a0access\u00a0advocates?<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0So\u00a0the\u00a0first\u00a0thing,\u00a0I\u00a0think, is\u00a0that\u00a0we\u00a0should\u00a0take\u00a0this\u00a0discussion outside the\u00a0walls\u00a0of\u00a0academia. Every\u00a0time\u00a0somebody graduates\u00a0in a university and goes\u00a0into\u00a0the\u00a0outside\u00a0world,\u00a0as it were, they\u00a0realize\u00a0what\u00a0they\u2019re\u00a0losing. They\u2019re losing\u00a0access\u00a0to\u00a0all this\u00a0knowledge,\u00a0and\u00a0they\u00a0don\u2019t deserve\u00a0this\u00a0loss. We have\u00a0educated\u00a0them\u00a0to\u00a0be\u00a0modern\u00a0citizens\u00a0who\u00a0use\u00a0knowledge\u00a0for\u00a0their occupations,\u00a0who\u00a0want\u00a0to\u00a0improve\u00a0the\u00a0world\u00a0and\u00a0so\u00a0forth,\u00a0and\u00a0we\u2019re\u00a0saying\u00a0to them, after\u00a0you\u2019ve\u00a0left\u00a0university,\u00a0we\u00a0don\u2019t\u00a0care\u00a0about\u00a0your\u00a0access\u00a0to\u00a0knowledge. So I\u00a0think\u00a0we\u00a0need\u00a0to\u00a0take\u00a0it\u00a0out\u00a0to\u00a0citizens\u00a0to\u00a0say,\u00a0you\u00a0are\u00a0paying\u00a0this\u00a0huge amount\u00a0of money.\u00a0So\u00a0actually,\u00a0the\u00a0world\u00a0spends\u00a0five\u00a0hundred\u00a0billion,\u00a0with\u00a0a\u00a0\u201cb,\u201d dollars on\u00a0publicly\u00a0funded\u00a0research,\u00a0and\u00a0most\u00a0of\u00a0this\u00a0is\u00a0not\u00a0actually\u00a0used properly. About\u00a0eighty\u00a0five percent\u00a0is\u00a0wasted,\u00a0according\u00a0to\u00a0Lancet<\/em>, because\u00a0it\u2019s not distributed\u00a0properly.\u00a0It\u2019s duplicated. It\u2019s\u00a0poorly\u00a0done,\u00a0and\u00a0so\u00a0forth,\u00a0and\u00a0so we\u2019ve, you\u00a0know,\u00a0we\u2019re\u00a0spending taxpayers\u2019\u00a0money\u00a0in\u00a0an\u00a0irresponsible manner for\u00a0research.\u00a0There\u2019s\u00a0a\u00a0small\u00a0and\u00a0even\u00a0more\u00a0obvious\u00a0case\u00a0where\u00a0we\u2019re\u00a0spending\u00a0this\u00a0twenty\u00a0billion\u00a0dollars\u00a0to\u00a0pay\u00a0publishers\u00a0for things\u00a0that\u00a0are\u00a0dysfunctional and so on.\u00a0So\u00a0if\u00a0we\u00a0are\u00a0able\u00a0to\u00a0find\u00a0citizens\u00a0who\u00a0care\u00a0about\u00a0it,\u00a0then,\u00a0we\u00a0should\u00a0be able to\u00a0get\u00a0them\u00a0to\u00a0come\u00a0in\u00a0and\u00a0start\u00a0a\u00a0political\u00a0process\u00a0of claiming\u00a0back\u00a0our knowledge. These\u00a0are\u00a0people,\u00a0like\u00a0people\u00a0who\u00a0are\u00a0patients,\u00a0you\u00a0are\u00a0suffering from a disease\u00a0or\u00a0your\u00a0family\u00a0member\u00a0is,\u00a0you\u00a0should\u00a0be\u00a0able\u00a0to\u00a0read\u00a0the papers about\u00a0your\u00a0disease.\u00a0You\u00a0may\u00a0very\u00a0well\u00a0be\u00a0volunteered\u00a0to\u00a0be\u00a0in\u00a0a\u00a0clinical\u00a0trial\u00a0to look\u00a0at\u00a0this\u00a0disease,\u00a0to\u00a0have\u00a0new\u00a0drug\u00a0treatments\u00a0or\u00a0other\u00a0types\u00a0of\u00a0therapy,\u00a0and you are\u00a0not\u00a0allowed\u00a0to\u00a0read\u00a0the\u00a0papers\u00a0about\u00a0the\u00a0trial\u00a0that\u00a0you\u00a0have\u00a0participated in. So\u00a0that\u2019s\u00a0a\u00a0particularly\u00a0clear\u00a0a\u00a0clear\u00a0example\u00a0of\u00a0injustice.\u00a0In\u00a0the\u00a0world,\u00a0we\u00a0are threatened by\u00a0or\u00a0sorts\u00a0of\u00a0possible\u00a0problems\u00a0in\u00a0the\u00a0future,\u00a0which\u00a0are primarily due to\u00a0climate\u00a0change,\u00a0but\u00a0they\u2019re\u00a0also\u00a0due\u00a0to\u00a0other\u00a0things,\u00a0like\u00a0exhaustion\u00a0of resources and\u00a0so\u00a0on,\u00a0and\u00a0we\u00a0probably have\u00a0solutions\u00a0to\u00a0these,\u00a0right? To\u00a0create new materials,\u00a0to\u00a0create\u00a0new\u00a0types\u00a0of\u00a0society,\u00a0and\u00a0so\u00a0on,\u00a0and\u00a0the\u00a0solutions\u00a0to those may\u00a0very\u00a0well\u00a0be\u00a0in\u00a0the\u00a0scientific\u00a0literature\u00a0at\u00a0the\u00a0moment,\u00a0but I\u00a0run\u00a0a\u00a0small scientific\u00a0startup\u00a0in\u00a0the\u00a0U.K.,\u00a0Content\u00a0Mine,\u00a0to\u00a0mine\u00a0the\u00a0literature,\u00a0and\u00a0as\u00a0far\u00a0as content\u00a0mining\u00a0is\u00a0concerned,\u00a0it\u00a0cannot\u00a0read\u00a0the\u00a0scientific\u00a0literature\u00a0unless\u00a0it\u00a0is open access, and\u00a0in\u00a0chemistry,\u00a0ninety-five\u00a0percent\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0chemistry\u00a0is forbidden by the\u00a0publishers\u00a0who\u00a0publish\u00a0that\u00a0and\u00a0so\u00a0on.\u00a0So\u00a0I\u00a0talked\u00a0to\u00a0a\u00a0company\u00a0last\u00a0week who\u2019s\u00a0coming\u00a0up\u00a0with software\u00a0which\u00a0will\u00a0predict\u00a0better\u00a0drugs,\u00a0how\u00a0would\u00a0the drugs metabolize\u00a0so\u00a0you\u00a0can\u00a0come\u00a0up\u00a0with\u00a0different\u00a0therapies\u00a0for\u00a0different\u00a0people suffering\u00a0from\u00a0different diseases,\u00a0and\u00a0they\u00a0need\u00a0that\u00a0data\u00a0in\u00a0the\u00a0literature,\u00a0and they can\u2019t get\u00a0it,\u00a0because\u00a0if\u00a0they\u00a0have\u00a0to\u00a0pay\u00a0forty\u00a0dollars\u00a0for\u00a0a\u00a0paper,\u00a0and\u00a0then\u00a0on top\u00a0of\u00a0it,\u00a0an\u00a0unknown\u00a0and\u00a0arbitrary charge\u00a0to\u00a0extract\u00a0the\u00a0data out of\u00a0the\u00a0literature, so\u00a0they\u00a0could\u00a0be\u00a0looking\u00a0at\u00a0doubling\u00a0that\u00a0figure\u00a0at least, and\u00a0so\u00a0let\u2019s\u00a0say\u00a0one hundred\u00a0dollars\u00a0per\u00a0paper\u00a0and\u00a0they\u00a0have\u00a0to read\u00a0ten\u00a0thousand\u00a0papers,\u00a0and\u00a0you did a sum,\u00a0that\u00a0is\u00a0a\u00a0million\u00a0dollars\u00a0for\u00a0being\u00a0able\u00a0to\u00a0access\u00a0the\u00a0literature,\u00a0to\u00a0read the\u00a0papers\u00a0they\u00a0want,\u00a0ninety percent\u00a0of\u00a0which\u00a0are\u00a0actually\u00a0then\u00a0false\u00a0positives. They\u2019re not what\u00a0they\u00a0wanted,\u00a0because\u00a0the\u00a0search\u00a0engines\u00a0are\u00a0so\u00a0inefficient\u00a0and that is simply\u00a0not\u00a0fair\u00a0to\u00a0the\u00a0planet.<\/p>\n

Benson: I\u00a0agree,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0that\u00a0to\u00a0me,\u00a0that\u2019s\u00a0one\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0biggest\u00a0reasons\u00a0we\u00a0need open\u00a0access\u00a0is\u00a0because\u00a0we\u00a0need\u00a0to\u00a0solve\u00a0the\u00a0world\u2019s\u00a0problems.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n

Benson:\u00a0And\u00a0in\u00a0order\u00a0to\u00a0solve\u00a0the\u00a0world\u2019s problems,\u00a0these\u00a0are\u00a0not\u00a0minor problems, you\u00a0know,\u00a0climate\u00a0change,\u00a0to\u00a0me,\u00a0climate\u00a0change\u00a0is\u00a0the\u00a0most\u00a0pressing problem\u00a0that\u00a0faces\u00a0everyone,\u00a0rich,\u00a0poor,\u00a0American, not\u00a0American, it\u00a0doesn\u2019t matter who\u00a0you\u00a0are,\u00a0your\u00a0children\u00a0and\u00a0your\u00a0children\u2019s\u00a0children\u00a0are\u00a0going\u00a0to\u00a0face this\u00a0crisis,\u00a0and\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0in\u00a0large\u00a0part\u00a0man-created,\u00a0and\u00a0we\u00a0need\u00a0to\u00a0solve\u00a0it,\u00a0and\u00a0so to me, the\u00a0only\u00a0way\u00a0we\u00a0can\u00a0solve\u00a0it,\u00a0is\u00a0through\u00a0collaboration\u00a0and\u00a0through\u00a0knowledge sharing,\u00a0and\u00a0the\u00a0more\u00a0we\u00a0shut\u00a0down\u00a0knowledge\u00a0and\u00a0and\u00a0its\u00a0corporate\u00a0ties,\u00a0and it\u2019s\u00a0too expensive\u00a0to\u00a0reach,\u00a0the\u00a0more\u00a0we\u2019re\u00a0harming\u00a0our\u00a0own selves.\u00a0I\u00a0mean, we\u2019re just harming\u00a0society\u00a0so.<\/p>\n

But\u00a0again,\u00a0the\u00a0solutions\u00a0are\u00a0hard.\u00a0I\u00a0do\u00a0know\u00a0open\u00a0access\u00a0has\u00a0flourished\u00a0a\u00a0lot\u00a0in South\u00a0America\u00a0because\u00a0they\u00a0don\u2019t\u00a0have\u00a0the\u00a0right\u00a0under\u00a0their\u00a0copyright\u00a0laws\u00a0for interlibrary loan\u00a0so\u00a0they\u2019ve\u00a0created\u00a0so\u00a0much\u00a0open\u00a0access\u00a0to\u00a0get\u00a0that\u00a0knowledge shared among\u00a0different\u00a0libraries,\u00a0and\u00a0that\u00a0has\u00a0created\u00a0societal\u00a0benefits,\u00a0but\u00a0in America,\u00a0we\u00a0have\u00a0the\u00a0right\u00a0to\u00a0interlibrary\u00a0loan,\u00a0and\u00a0so\u00a0everyone,\u00a0I\u00a0think,\u00a0gets a little\u00a0complacent,\u00a0right,\u00a0because\u00a0a\u00a0lot\u00a0of\u00a0our\u00a0libraries\u00a0are\u00a0so\u00a0strong.\u00a0University\u00a0of Illinois\u00a0Library\u00a0is one\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0strongest\u00a0libraries\u00a0in\u00a0the\u00a0world\u00a0in\u00a0terms\u00a0of\u00a0content collection\u00a0and\u00a0numbers,\u00a0but\u00a0at\u00a0the\u00a0same\u00a0time,\u00a0you\u00a0know,\u00a0like\u00a0you\u00a0said,\u00a0as\u00a0soon as\u00a0our\u00a0students\u00a0graduate, they\u2019re\u00a0cut\u00a0off\u00a0from\u00a0that\u00a0collection,\u00a0and\u00a0so it\u2019s\u00a0great\u00a0if you\u2019re here\u00a0and\u00a0you\u2019re\u00a0a\u00a0researcher,\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0not\u00a0so\u00a0great\u00a0if\u00a0you\u00a0move\u00a0away.\u00a0Even\u00a0if you\u2019re a\u00a0community\u00a0member\u00a0,you\u00a0can come\u00a0in\u00a0and\u00a0access\u00a0our\u00a0collections, but\u00a0if you\u00a0are\u00a0distant\u00a0and\u00a0you\u00a0move\u00a0away,\u00a0then you\u2019ve\u00a0been\u00a0shut\u00a0off\u00a0from\u00a0those resources. So\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0a\u00a0problem,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0don\u2019t\u00a0have a\u00a0great\u00a0solution.\u00a0I\u00a0mean, I\u00a0think there\u00a0are\u00a0many\u00a0possible\u00a0paths,\u00a0but\u00a0I think you\u2019re\u00a0right,\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0going\u00a0to\u00a0need the general public to\u00a0get\u00a0involved,\u00a0not\u00a0just\u00a0well meaning\u00a0librarians\u00a0such\u00a0as\u00a0myself.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0Absolutely agree\u00a0with\u00a0that,\u00a0and thanks\u00a0for\u00a0bringing\u00a0up South America, my codirector, Cesar, is from Chile, and we are actually really\u00a0looking\u00a0at South America to\u00a0see, and in\u00a0Latin America\u00a0more\u00a0generally,\u00a0to\u00a0see\u00a0if\u00a0there\u00a0are things that\u00a0we\u00a0can\u00a0do\u00a0which\u00a0are\u00a0different\u00a0from\u00a0what\u00a0the\u00a0rich\u00a0West\u00a0is\u00a0doing.\u00a0The problem, you\u00a0know,\u00a0with\u00a0Latin\u00a0America\u00a0is\u00a0that\u00a0there\u2019s\u00a0an\u00a0increasing\u00a0tendency\u00a0for them\u00a0to adopt\u00a0the\u00a0western\u00a0model,\u00a0you\u00a0know,\u00a0in\u00a0publishing,\u00a0in\u00a0western\u00a0glamour journals, rather\u00a0than\u00a0building\u00a0a\u00a0Latin\u00a0American\u00a0approach\u00a0to\u00a0this,\u00a0which\u00a0would\u00a0be fairer because\u00a0there\u00a0is\u00a0a\u00a0culture\u00a0in\u00a0Latin\u00a0America\u00a0that\u00a0you\u00a0do\u00a0research\u00a0no necessarily for\u00a0your glory,\u00a0but\u00a0for\u00a0the\u00a0benefit\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0community,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0think that\u2019s stronger there than\u00a0it\u00a0often\u00a0is\u00a0in parts\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0West.<\/p>\n

So\u00a0if,\u00a0you\u00a0know,\u00a0the\u00a0technology\u00a0is\u00a0there\u00a0to\u00a0support\u00a0this,\u00a0but\u00a0the\u00a0politics isn\u2019t near it there.<\/p>\n

Benson: Well,\u00a0my\u00a0father\u00a0is\u00a0actually\u00a0a\u00a0doctor,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0asked\u00a0him\u00a0once\u00a0why\u00a0he\u00a0got into the\u00a0specialty\u00a0that\u00a0he\u2019s\u00a0in\u00a0because\u00a0he\u2019s\u00a0an\u00a0ontological\u00a0urologist.\u00a0He\u00a0does cancer. He\u2019s\u00a0a\u00a0cancer researcher,\u00a0and\u00a0he\u00a0told\u00a0me\u00a0specifically\u00a0that\u00a0he\u00a0wanted\u00a0to help people and\u00a0cure\u00a0the\u00a0disease,\u00a0and\u00a0that\u00a0has\u00a0been\u00a0the\u00a0driving\u00a0force\u00a0behind\u00a0his research,\u00a0and\u00a0he\u2019s\u00a0discovered\u00a0new\u00a0genes\u00a0that\u00a0are\u00a0cancer-causing\u00a0genes\u00a0and things like\u00a0that,\u00a0but\u00a0he\u00a0has\u00a0always\u00a0been\u00a0motivated\u00a0by\u00a0helping\u00a0society,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0think that is\u00a0what\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0doctors should\u00a0be\u00a0motivated\u00a0by.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0Agreed.<\/p>\n

Benson: But\u00a0I\u00a0also\u00a0agree\u00a0that even\u00a0in\u00a0library\u00a0science I\u00a0am motivated\u00a0by\u00a0helping\u00a0the\u00a0general\u00a0public\u00a0understand\u00a0copyright\u00a0law, which\u00a0is part of the\u00a0reason\u00a0I\u00a0do\u00a0this\u00a0podcast.\u00a0It\u2019s\u00a0not\u00a0aimed\u00a0only\u00a0at\u00a0experts. It\u2019s\u00a0aimed\u00a0at anyone who\u2019s\u00a0interested,\u00a0because\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0we\u00a0all\u00a0need\u00a0to\u00a0understand\u00a0the\u00a0system\u00a0that often is corrupt,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0that,\u00a0I\u00a0hope\u00a0that\u00a0more\u00a0and\u00a0more\u00a0individuals\u00a0who\u00a0are\u00a0just trying\u00a0to\u00a0gain\u00a0information\u00a0and\u00a0are\u00a0being\u00a0shut\u00a0off\u00a0and\u00a0cut\u00a0off\u00a0from\u00a0these\u00a0sources\u00a0of information\u00a0will\u00a0understand\u00a0that this\u00a0is\u00a0this\u00a0is\u00a0very\u00a0much\u00a0an\u00a0issue.\u00a0This\u00a0is a problem. This\u00a0is\u00a0a\u00a0world-wide\u00a0problem,\u00a0and\u00a0we\u00a0really\u00a0need\u00a0to\u00a0solve\u00a0this\u00a0or\u00a0else, you know, the only\u00a0people\u00a0who\u00a0are\u00a0going\u00a0to suffer\u00a0are\u00a0the\u00a0masses.\u00a0We\u00a0ourselves as a society\u00a0are\u00a0going\u00a0to\u00a0suffer.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0Agreed.<\/p>\n

Benson:\u00a0So\u00a0unfortunately,\u00a0you\u00a0know, getting\u00a0a\u00a0mouthpiece\u00a0for\u00a0that particular issue\u00a0is sometimes\u00a0hard.\u00a0It\u2019s\u00a0a\u00a0little\u00a0harder\u00a0to\u00a0get,\u00a0get\u00a0it\u00a0really\u00a0to\u00a0be\u00a0understood by\u00a0people,\u00a0but\u00a0I\u00a0think,\u00a0you\u00a0know,\u00a0open\u00a0educational\u00a0resources,\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0we\u2019re making\u00a0some headway\u00a0there.\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0students\u00a0are\u00a0getting\u00a0fed\u00a0up\u00a0with\u00a0having\u00a0to choose between\u00a0eating\u00a0and\u00a0reading\u00a0their\u00a0books\u00a0and\u00a0paying\u00a0those\u00a0exorbitant prices, and\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0more and\u00a0more\u00a0faculty\u00a0members\u00a0are\u00a0seeing\u00a0the\u00a0plight\u00a0that their\u00a0students\u00a0are\u00a0suffering\u00a0and\u00a0are\u00a0understanding\u00a0that\u00a0this\u00a0is\u00a0an\u00a0issue.\u00a0So\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0that\u2019s\u00a0one\u00a0area\u00a0where\u00a0we\u00a0might\u00a0be able\u00a0to\u00a0get\u00a0students\u00a0who\u00a0are\u00a0younger\u00a0and more vibrant\u00a0and\u00a0more\u00a0politically\u00a0active\u00a0to\u00a0get\u00a0involved,\u00a0and\u00a0maybe\u00a0it\u00a0can\u00a0spiral out from\u00a0there\u00a0to\u00a0a\u00a0more\u00a0global\u00a0movement.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0I completely\u00a0agree,\u00a0and,\u00a0you\u00a0know,\u00a0one\u00a0of\u00a0my\u00a0privileges\u00a0has\u00a0been to be funded\u00a0by\u00a0the\u00a0Shuttleworth\u00a0Foundation,\u00a0I\u2019m\u00a0a\u00a0fellow\u00a0Shuttleworth, and\u00a0some of\u00a0my\u00a0colleagues are\u00a0involved\u00a0in\u00a0open\u00a0educational resources,\u00a0particularly David Wiley and Kathy\u00a0Fletcher,\u00a0and\u00a0they\u00a0are\u00a0developing books at\u00a0cost\u00a0price,\u00a0you know,\u00a0which are,\u00a0you\u00a0know, twenty\u00a0fifty\u00a0times\u00a0cheaper\u00a0than\u00a0the\u00a0commercial alternatives,\u00a0and\u00a0that\u2019s\u00a0is\u00a0the\u00a0way that I\u00a0think\u00a0that\u00a0we\u00a0start\u00a0to engage\u00a0students\u00a0at an early\u00a0stage,\u00a0where\u00a0you\u00a0say,\u00a0look,\u00a0we\u00a0want\u00a0your\u00a0education\u00a0to\u00a0be\u00a0cost\u00a0effective, and\u00a0one\u00a0way\u00a0of\u00a0doing\u00a0this\u00a0is\u00a0to\u00a0bring\u00a0in\u00a0resources\u00a0which\u00a0are high\u00a0quality,\u00a0which are sharable,\u00a0and you as a student are actually part of this process. Open education is not\u00a0us giving\u00a0you\u00a0that,\u00a0but\u00a0here\u00a0you\u00a0are\u00a0as\u00a0a\u00a0student, I\u2019m\u00a0part of your education is\u00a0to\u00a0learn how\u00a0we\u00a0can\u00a0change\u00a0the\u00a0future\u00a0by\u00a0carrying collaborative operations\u00a0of\u00a0this\u00a0sort.\u00a0So\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0if\u00a0we\u00a0start this sort of\u00a0process\u00a0at\u00a0the undergraduate level,\u00a0make people\u00a0aware\u00a0that\u00a0this\u00a0is\u00a0an\u00a0issue\u00a0which they, at least in part, have\u00a0inherited and own\u00a0and very\u00a0probably\u00a0have\u00a0solutions\u00a0to\u00a0that\u00a0we haven\u2019t thought\u00a0of.<\/p>\n

Benson: Yeah, I\u00a0think\u00a0that\u00a0really,\u00a0when\u00a0they\u00a0say\u00a0that\u00a0children\u00a0are\u00a0our\u00a0future,\u00a0it\u2019s so true.\u00a0I\u2019ve been\u00a0really\u00a0impressed,\u00a0for\u00a0instance,\u00a0lately,\u00a0with\u00a0the\u00a0motivation\u00a0of\u00a0the students\u00a0in combat\u00a0and\u00a0gun violence\u00a0in\u00a0the\u00a0U.S.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0Exactly.<\/p>\n

Benson: I\u00a0have\u00a0seen\u00a0they\u00a0are\u00a0just\u00a0so\u00a0articulate,\u00a0and\u00a0they\u2019re\u00a0so\u00a0passionate,\u00a0and they\u00a0are\u00a0just\u00a0wonderful\u00a0future\u00a0leaders,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0that\u00a0if\u00a0we\u00a0can\u00a0get\u00a0those\u00a0same voices\u00a0on\u00a0board\u00a0with\u00a0challenging\u00a0the\u00a0current\u00a0scholarship system,\u00a0then\u00a0maybe we can\u00a0make\u00a0some\u00a0headway,\u00a0but\u00a0you\u00a0know,\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0harder\u00a0to\u00a0get\u00a0them\u00a0involved\u00a0and\u00a0to get them\u00a0aware\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0issue, it\u00a0seems,\u00a0than\u00a0something\u00a0that\u00a0hits\u00a0them really\u00a0close to\u00a0home.\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0educational\u00a0resources\u00a0does\u00a0hit\u00a0them\u00a0close\u00a0to\u00a0home.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0Agreed.<\/p>\n

Benson:\u00a0So\u00a0I think\u00a0that\u2019s\u00a0one\u00a0of\u00a0the\u00a0ways\u00a0in,\u00a0so\u00a0I\u2019m\u00a0hoping\u00a0that\u00a0this\u00a0movement takes off,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0know\u00a0we\u00a0just\u00a0got\u00a0some\u00a0funding\u00a0from\u00a0Congress,\u00a0five\u00a0million\u00a0dollars for\u00a0open\u00a0educational resources\u00a0in\u00a0the\u00a0U.S.\u00a0Which\u00a0five\u00a0million\u00a0dollars\u00a0sounds like a lot,\u00a0but\u00a0I\u2019m\u00a0sure\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0not\u00a0in\u00a0the\u00a0realm\u00a0of\u00a0what\u00a0we\u00a0really\u00a0need\u00a0in\u00a0terms\u00a0of\u00a0support, but\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0a\u00a0good\u00a0step\u00a0in\u00a0the\u00a0right direction,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u2019m\u00a0really\u00a0heartened\u00a0by\u00a0that,\u00a0and I hope\u00a0that\u00a0that\u00a0can\u00a0further\u00a0this\u00a0movement\u00a0and\u00a0really\u00a0get\u00a0more\u00a0and\u00a0more\u00a0young voices\u00a0involved\u00a0so.<\/p>\n

Well,\u00a0it\u00a0is\u00a0been\u00a0so\u00a0much\u00a0fun\u00a0talking\u00a0to\u00a0you,\u00a0and\u00a0you\u00a0have\u00a0so\u00a0many\u00a0different experiences\u00a0to\u00a0share,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0hope\u00a0that\u00a0people\u00a0will\u00a0check\u00a0out\u00a0your\u00a0website.\u00a0I\u2019ll\u00a0link to\u00a0it,\u00a0and you\u00a0know,\u00a0go\u00a0to\u00a0see\u00a0your\u00a0talks.\u00a0I\u2019ve\u00a0seen\u00a0you\u00a0talk\u00a0at IFLA, and\u00a0it\u00a0was really\u00a0wonderful,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0know\u00a0you\u2019re\u00a0constantly\u00a0lecturing\u00a0around\u00a0the\u00a0world\u00a0so.<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust:\u00a0Well, no, occasionally, it\u2019s really valuable to me because this allows me to talk naturally, and\u00a0I\u00a0come\u00a0up\u00a0with\u00a0ideas\u00a0even\u00a0during\u00a0the\u00a0last\u00a0half\u00a0hour, which I\u00a0only\u00a0get\u00a0because I\u2019m\u00a0talking,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u2019m\u00a0relaxed,\u00a0and\u00a0thinking\u00a0of,\u00a0you\u00a0know, how\u00a0we\u00a0take\u00a0things\u00a0forward\u00a0so, it\u2019s\u00a0wonderful\u00a0to\u00a0have\u00a0this,\u00a0and\u00a0to\u00a0capture\u00a0it, you know,\u00a0so\u00a0efficiently on podcast and\u00a0so\u00a0on,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0look\u00a0forward\u00a0to\u00a0being able\u00a0to share\u00a0this\u00a0with\u00a0the\u00a0world.<\/p>\n

Benson: Yes,\u00a0and\u00a0I hope\u00a0you\u00a0do. Definitely\u00a0tweet\u00a0it\u00a0out,\u00a0and\u00a0we\u2019ll\u00a0hopefully\u00a0get some new\u00a0listeners,\u00a0so\u00a0thanks\u00a0for\u00a0being\u00a0with\u00a0me\u00a0today.\u00a0I\u00a0hope\u00a0you\u00a0enjoy\u00a0the\u00a0rest of your\u00a0stay\u00a0in\u00a0chilly\u00a0Champaign-Urbana.\u00a0It\u2019s\u00a0April,\u00a0and\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0really\u00a0cold, but\u00a0thank you so much\u00a0for\u00a0visiting\u00a0today<\/p>\n

Murray-Rust: And\u00a0thank\u00a0you.<\/p>\n

Blog<\/a><\/p>\n

Shuttleworth Foundation site<\/a><\/p>\n

Music credit<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Transcript: Benson: Copyright\u00a0Chat\u00a0is\u00a0a\u00a0podcast\u00a0dedicated\u00a0to\u00a0discussing\u00a0important\u00a0copyright matters.\u00a0Host,\u00a0Sara Benson,\u00a0the\u00a0Copyright\u00a0Librarian\u00a0from the\u00a0University\u00a0of Illinois, converses\u00a0with experts\u00a0from\u00a0across the globe\u00a0to\u00a0engage the\u00a0public\u00a0with rights issues relevant\u00a0to\u00a0their\u00a0daily\u00a0lives. Welcome\u00a0to\u00a0Copyright\u00a0Chat.\u00a0Today\u00a0we\u00a0have\u00a0Peter\u00a0Murray-Rust, a\u00a0researcher from Cambridge\u00a0University. He\u2019s\u00a0visiting\u00a0me\u00a0live\u00a0today\u00a0in\u00a0my\u00a0office. Welcome, Peter. Murray-Rust:\u00a0Hi there. Thanks\u00a0very much,\u00a0Sara. Benson:\u00a0Thank\u00a0you\u00a0for\u00a0coming.\u00a0So\u00a0you\u2019ve\u00a0done\u00a0some\u00a0really\u00a0interesting\u00a0work\u00a0with\u00a0open\u00a0access. You\u2019re\u00a0kind of,\u00a0I\u00a0would\u00a0designate\u00a0you\u00a0an\u00a0open\u00a0access\u00a0champion. And\u00a0I\u00a0think\u00a0one\u00a0of\u00a0your\u00a0most\u00a0interesting\u00a0projects,\u00a0at\u00a0least\u00a0to\u00a0me,\u00a0has\u00a0been\u00a0your content\u00a0mining\u00a0project,\u00a0and\u00a0I\u00a0thought\u00a0maybe\u00a0you\u00a0could\u00a0talk\u00a0a\u00a0little\u00a0bit\u00a0about\u00a0that,\u00a0what\u00a0the impetus\u00a0for\u00a0it\u00a0was,\u00a0and what\u00a0kinds\u00a0of projects people\u00a0can\u00a0do\u00a0with\u00a0it. Murray-Rust:\u00a0Right.\u00a0So\u00a0more general\u00a0than\u00a0open\u00a0access.\u00a0I\u2019m\u00a0an\u00a0open\u00a0advocate\u00a0on many\u00a0fronts:\u00a0open\u00a0source for code,\u00a0open\u00a0data\u00a0for experiments\u00a0and\u00a0other\u00a0types\u00a0of data that\u2019s\u00a0collected,\u00a0open\u00a0access\u00a0for\u00a0access to\u00a0the literature,\u00a0and always\u00a0of reducing\u00a0the\u00a0friction\u00a0from\u00a0going\u00a0from\u00a0one\u00a0place\u00a0to\u00a0another\u00a0when we\u2019re transmitting knowledge\u00a0and\u00a0creating\u00a0value\u00a0as\u00a0people\u00a0receive\u00a0knowledge and aggregate it and\u00a0filter it\u00a0and\u00a0so\u00a0on. […]","protected":false},"author":83,"featured_media":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"http:\/\/flash.atlas.illinois.edu\/media\/lib\/CopyrightChatPodcast\/CopyrightChatPodcast_Murray-Rust.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"","filesize":"25.4M","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"2024-02-07 23:58:55","explicit":"","block":""},"tags":[],"series":[11],"class_list":["post-284","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","hentry","series-copyright-chat"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":false,"episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommunications\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/98\/2024\/02\/chat_orange_1400.png","download_link":"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommunications\/podcast-download\/284\/peter-murray-rust-explains-contentmine-and-the-open-access-universe.mp3","player_link":"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommunications\/podcast-player\/284\/peter-murray-rust-explains-contentmine-and-the-open-access-universe.mp3","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"dark","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"stitcher":{"key":"stitcher","url":"","label":"Stitcher","class":"stitcher","icon":"stitcher.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommunications\/feed\/podcast\/copyright-chat","embedCode":"

Peter Murray-Rust Explains ContentMine and the Open Access Universe<\/a><\/blockquote>