{"id":272,"date":"2017-08-07T23:40:43","date_gmt":"2017-08-07T23:40:43","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommunications\/?post_type=podcast&p=272"},"modified":"2026-01-29T16:53:03","modified_gmt":"2026-01-29T16:53:03","slug":"busting-common-copyright-myths-with-gordon-speagle","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommunications\/podcast\/busting-common-copyright-myths-with-gordon-speagle\/","title":{"rendered":"Busting Common Copyright Myths with Gordon Speagle"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"Gordon<\/strong><\/p>\n

Transcript:<\/strong><\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: Welcome to the podcast! Today we have Gordon Speagle with us. Hi, Gordon!<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: Hi, Sara! How are you doing today?<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: I\u2019m doing great. Today we\u2019re going to myth-bust. Specifically we\u2019re going to bust some copyright myths. Are you ready for that, Gordon?<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: I\u2019m ready to bust away, Sara.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: Great. Well, can you tell our listening public a little bit about yourself?<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: My name is Gordon Speagle. I\u2019m an academic advisor at the College of Engineering at the University of Illinois, and I stay away from revolving doors.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: That\u2019s a good idea. Now, do you know anything about copyright?<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: I know you can run afoul with copyright rules if you\u2019re not paying attention.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: Okay, so you basically know nothing about copyright. This is what we\u2019re trying to communicate. In this game, I tried to recruit someone who did not know too much about copyright in order to see what the general public might think so we can myth bust. How does that sound?<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: Sounds great. You found a wonderful willing and ignorant individual to have on the podcast.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: Perfect! So this game is called two copyright truths and a lie. I\u2019m going to read three statements for you, and you need to decide which is the lie. Pretty simple, right?<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: It is.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: Well, let\u2019s practice on something totally unrelated to copyright. Which one is the lie? The sky is blue. The night sky is rainbow-colored. The grass is green.<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: Hm\u2026cue the jeopardy music.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: This one\u2019s tricky.<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: As much as I\u2019d like it to be true, I\u2019m going to go with the second option is the one that is not true.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: Correct. So now that you know how to play, let\u2019s try some copyright related statements. First, if I scribble on a piece of paper, that\u2019s generally enough to create a copyright. Second, anything that is on the unrestricted World Wide Web is free to use because the owner has waived copyright. Or three, I have the option to put a copyright symbol on my work if I want to.<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: Hm\u2026I would say that number one is going to be false.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: This is why I love you, Gordon, because you\u2019re completely incorrect. But, but this is a common copyright myth. Actually copyright is really easy to obtain. All you need to do is fix something, which means write it down or record it, that is minimally creative. And minimally creative is at a really low bar, so some of your child\u2019s artwork likely works, and I don\u2019t mean scribbling by just creating a few lines, but anything resembling artwork is copyrightable. The thing that most people think is true is that anything on the unrestricted World Wide Web is free to use because the owner has waived copyright, but that\u2019s just not true. And I do want to bust that myth. Even if it doesn\u2019t look like it\u2019s copyright protected, even if it\u2019s easy to access and it\u2019s open to access, it doesn\u2019t mean that they have somehow waived copyright protection. So we\u2019ll get more into the weeds on that one later. Let\u2019s go to another round of \u201cdo you know the copyright myth.\u201d So first, I have to put a copyright symbol on my work to have a copyright. Second, everything before 1923 that was published in the United States is in the public domain and free to use. Or third, another important thing to consider when assessing copyright is licensing.<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: Hm, let\u2019s see. I\u2019m going to go with number two, I believe is false.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: Again, my favorite person in the world is Gordon Speagle right now because that\u2019s wrong actually. But it\u2019s really good to know this, right? Because public domain works are things where copyright has expired, and anything before 1923, if it was published in the United States, is free to use, unless under copyright terms. That\u2019s a wonderful thing for people to understand that they can even sell things, like images and things like that, from pre-1923. The common myth here is that folks think that they have to put a copyright symbol on their work in order to have a protected copyright, and that is not true. You do not have to do any kind of formality anymore. That actually was abolished in 1989 when we joined the Berne Convention. And so we have a copyright on that scribbled piece of artwork on the paper, even if I don\u2019t put the copyright symbol on it. All right, let\u2019s go to another round.<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: Sara, you\u2019re blowing my mind this afternoon.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: I\u2019m so glad! Hopefully our listeners at home are also being blown away right now. All right, number one, I have to register my work with the copyright office to sue someone for infringing my copyright. Number two, if I record a song, I should mail myself a copy of the CD or other recording via registered mail to have a date stamp of creation when I need to enforce the copyright. Or three, even email messages can create copyrighted works.<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: Hm\u2026I\u2019m going to say number two. I would say that seems to be a myth.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: That is right. You finally got one. Congratulations! We threw you a bone here! So, you don\u2019t have to register your work in order to have a copyright. As we noted earlier, you don\u2019t have formalities. But if you want to sue someone in court, you do have to register it. So that\u2019s the sort of catch-22. You have to register it before you sue anybody. And this whole myth of mailing yourself\u2014I guess this is common in the music industry and something people say recently. It\u2019s not something you can\u2019t do, but you don\u2019t have to do that. In fact, a lot of times people are creating digital works now, and they\u2019re date stamped down to the second. So you don\u2019t need anything further than that to prove when you created the work, right? Because copyright attaches from the time of creation. And so, a lot of folks think they need to do this. They\u2019re wasting their money on that certified mail, but if it makes them feel good, let them do it. All right, another round. One, there is a general copyright exception for teaching. Two, fair use is a right. Or three, if someone emails me asking me to take something off of my website, they first have to do a fair use assessment to make sure my use isn\u2019t a fair use.<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: Hm, I want to say that number one is false.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: You are getting good at this, Gordon! You\u2019re on a roll here. That\u2019s right. You can use fair use for teaching, and there is an exception for teaching, but it is not a general, catch-all, broad exception. It is more specific and limited, and it\u2019s specifically for face-to-face teaching in a college or other designated area for teaching, like an elementary school classroom or a college classroom with students enrolled in the course. At that point, there\u2019s a fairly broad copyright exception, but it\u2019s limited to those spaces. All right, so you\u2019re getting better. Fair use is a right; it\u2019s also an exception to copyright protections. And the third one, I thought I was trying to trick you there, but there\u2019s some case law on that. If you send someone a notice telling them to take something off their website, there\u2019s a famous dancing baby case called Lenz where this baby was dancing on YouTube to Prince music, and Prince directed his folks to go after everyone who was using his music without permission. The woman said no, I\u2019m not taking this video off of YouTube because it\u2019s fair use, and the court said yeah, they should have done that fair use assessment before they sent that takedown notice. So that\u2019s a really interesting thing, and you got that round right! And that was a tricky one, so you should pat yourself on the back here. All right, so here\u2019s another round. We\u2019ve only got two rounds to go, I\u2019m just letting you know because I know this is hurting your brain. One, John and Sue co-author a work. Now Sue tells me that I can publish the work on my website, so I put it on my website because I legally can. Two, I want to show a movie in an after-school club. I play a copy of a DVD that I own, and that is legal. Or three, I want to show a movie during class. I play a DVD I own, and that is legal.<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: I\u2019m going to say that number two is false.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: You\u2019re myth busting all over the place here. That\u2019s right because we just talked about the face-to-face teaching exception. It doesn\u2019t apply to after school clubs and things like that. It applies when you\u2019re showing a movie during class with students, so number three is correct. Number one, the default rule under copyright is that joint owners own 100% of the work. Now they have to split any fees halfway, but if one of them gives you the permission to put it up, you\u2019re totally welcome and within your rights to do that even without seeking permission from the second author. Now, I would note that maybe ethically, and if you\u2019re doing business with these folks later, you may want to consider asking the other author, but legally you don\u2019t have to. All right, this is the final round. This is going to determine if you win or lose, because I think you might be even right now.<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: I think I am.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: I think you\u2019re even, so the pressure is on whether you\u2019re going to win at myth-busting or not. Number one, when making e-reserve copies of a copyright protected book, you can only copy ten percent of the book without paying a fee. Number two, the more transformative the use you intend to make of the copyright protected work, the more likely it is a fair use. And number three, if you\u2019re getting money from your use of a copyright protected work, it is less likely to be considered a fair use.<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: I would say that number three is false.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: Oh you were so, so close. You lose at myth-busting, but you win at helping me educate the public, so we\u2019re all winners today. The first one is actually incorrect because that is a common myth. It was grounded in the Circular 21 guidelines from the US Copyright Office, so the copyright office is to blame here. I guess I\u2019m going to make some enemies right now, but in those guidelines they state \u2014they do say they\u2019re not hard and fast rules, but unfortunately some people have interpreted them as such, and when they\u2019re taken as such, that\u2019s just not right. Fair use is very flexible and is not based on any particular percentage, and courts have said that. Now, if you\u2019re getting money from your use of a copyright protected work, it is less likely to be considered a fair use, but it doesn\u2019t mean it isn\u2019t one, right? Because we know from Google books for instance, they\u2019re a money-making entity, and they put those books that are copyright protected online for snippet viewing, and the court has held that that is a fair use. iI\u2019s just less likely. And of course, we do all agree that the more transformative your use, the more likely it is a fair use because you are creating something new, and you are using the work in a way that\u2019s different from the way it was intended. So you\u2019re usually not trying to supplant the market value for the original work. Well, this was a pleasure. I hope that the audience learned something today. Gordon sounds like he did.<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: Sara, this has been an enlightening and a stimulating afternoon.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: Well I\u2019m so glad and really appreciate you coming out, and if I ever find any folks with some engineering based questions, I will send them your way.<\/p>\n

Gordon<\/strong>: Send them my way.<\/p>\n

Sara<\/strong>: All right, thanks to everyone for listening.<\/p>\n

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Busting Common Copyright Myths with Gordon Speagle<\/a><\/blockquote>