{"id":175,"date":"2020-09-14T22:39:38","date_gmt":"2020-09-14T22:39:38","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommons\/?post_type=podcast&#038;p=175"},"modified":"2022-08-08T19:38:35","modified_gmt":"2022-08-08T19:38:35","slug":"it-takes-sara-benson","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommons\/podcast\/it-takes-sara-benson\/","title":{"rendered":"It Takes Sara Benson"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><a href=\"https:\/\/experts.illinois.edu\/en\/persons\/sara-rachel-benson\">Sara Benson&#8217;s Illinois Experts Profile<\/a><\/p>\n\n  <div id=\"ui_lib_panel\" class=\"shortcode sh-w-full !sh-border !sh-border-gray-300 sh-drop-shadow-sm sh-mb-2\">\n    \n    <div class=\"shortcode sh-w-full sh-px-3 sh-py-1.5 sh-bg-neutral-200 !sh-text-black sh-flex sh-justify-between sh-items-center sh-relative\">\n      <div><span class=\"shortcode sh-text-base sh-font-semibold sh-no-underline\">Full Transcript<\/span><\/div>\n      <div>\n        <div class=\"sh-flex sh-flex-col\"> \n          <div><span class=\"shortcode sh-text-xs sh-transition sh-duration-500 sh-ease-in-out sh-bg-neutral-200 !sh-text-black !sh-no-underline ui-lib-coll-pan-id1_label\" > expand <\/span><\/div>\n          <div class=\"sh-flex sh-justify-center -sh-mt-1\"><i class=\"shortcode fa-solid fa-caret-down sh-text-xl sh-font-semibold sh-transition sh-duration-500 sh-ease-in-out sh-bg-neutral-200 !sh-text-black !sh-no-underline ui-lib-coll-pan-id1_arrow\" ><\/i> <\/div>\n        <\/div>\n      <\/div>\n      <button type=\"button\" id=\"ui-lib-coll-pan-id1\" class=\"shortcode sh-absolute sh-top-0 sh-left-0 sh-w-full sh-h-full sh-bg-transparent focus:sh-outline-none focus-visible:sh-ring focus-visible:sh-ring-orange-700\" data-toggle=\"ui_lib_collapse\" data-target=\".ui-lib-coll-pan-id1\" aria-controls=\"ui-lib-coll-pan-id1\" aria-expanded=\"false\" title=\"Full Transcript\"><\/button>\n    <\/div>\n  <div class=\"shortcode sh-text-black sh-block sh-h-auto sh-max-h-0 sh-overflow-hidden sh-transition-max-height sh-duration-500 sh-ease-in-out ui-lib-coll-pan-id1\"  inert>\n      <div class=\"shortcode sh-px-2 sh-py-2\">\n<div style=\"font-size: 1.1rem\">\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\">Have you ever thought about what really goes in to supporting digital scholarship? Well, some may say it takes a village, but here at the University of Illinois, it\u2019s bigger than that. It takes a campus. The Scholarly Commons will be interviewing experts across campus about all the new and exciting things that are happening to support digital scholarship. We will sit down with a specialist to learn about what they do, how they do it, and why they got started working in their field. Hear what we mean when we say it takes a campus to do what we do.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;padding-top:0;margin: 0 -15px\">In today\u2019s episode we have Sara Benson, Copyright Librarian at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign\u2019s Main Library. She is interviewed by the previous graduate assistant of the Scholarly Commons, Billy Tringali who is now the Law Librarian for Outreach at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. Here we go.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Hello and welcome to the library experts podcast at the University of Illinois at Urban-Champaign. I am Billy Tringali with the Scholarly Commons and I am here with Sara Benson, our Copyright Librarian. Sara, thank you so much for being on my podcast.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Well, welcome to the wild and wooly world of podcasting.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> I\u2019m very excited to be getting involved with it. This is going to be a very fun project. You have a podcast and I think that would be a cool thing to open with discussing.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Sure. So, I have a podcast. It is called Copyright Chat. It\u2019s a little hard to find on iTunes because when you search for it, if you write out the word \u2018copyright\u2019 you don\u2019t find it. If you search my name, you will find it, or if you put the copyright symbol in there and then you put the copyright symbol \u2018hat\u2019. So, maybe my name was selected poorly but I like it.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> I like it a lot!<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Yeah and it\u2014and on the podcast, I talk to a variety of experts on copyright. Most, a lot of them are copyright librarians but not all, and we just talk about current copyright issues and it is really, pretty fun, I think, and so, it\u2019s not meant only for experts, it\u2019s meant for lay audiences, as well, so I invite anyone who is interested to listen.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> And that leads very well into your field of expertise. You are the Copyright Librarian for the University. What does that mean? What does it mean to be a Copyright Librarian?<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> That\u2019s a really good question. I think it varies depending on the institution. So, some folks at their job are the copyright police.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Oooh<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> If they have to enforce copyright all over campus\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Oh wow.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026and knock on doors and be very unwelcomed. Luckily, that\u2019s not my job.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> That\u2019s great!<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> My job is more of an advocate with, for instance, the U.S. Copyright Office. If there are changes that would help libraries and librarians, I will respond to Call for Comments.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> I, also, do a lot of educating. So, I do guest lectures. I consider my podcast part of my education arm and I talk to pretty much anyone who will talk to me and that includes staff members, it includes book store staff who are making, say, copies for course packs, it includes people who are making MOOCs [Massive Open Online Course], it includes faculty, students, even community members, since our library is a public library\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yes<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026from a land grant institution. If I get a phone call from, say, a local artist about, you know, what are my rights and copyright, what should I do with this or that, I will send them to information. But the, one of the key things that I have to do in my job is to give people a disclaimer which is: I am a lawyer but I\u2019m not your lawyer. So, I cannot give legal advice in my role as a librarian and I\u2019ve actually had people offer to pay me\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026to give them legal advice and I just can\u2019t do that for many reasons. One is that it would be a conflict of interest with my job.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yes<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Also, that\u2019s not a role of a librarian, right?<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Right.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Our role, in any arm of librarianship, is to help people find what they are looking for in terms of information but not do the research for people.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Exactly.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Yeah, so, you don\u2019t come to the library and say, \u201cDo this research for me.\u201d You say, \u201cCan you help me formulate this research?\u201d or \u201cCan you help me find this book?\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m not sure where to begin,\u201d and that\u2019s the same kind of information that I give, it\u2019s just specific to copyright.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> And you were a lawyer before you were a librarian.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Correct. So, I\u2019ve had a long career. It started as a practicing attorney. I started at a big law firm in Dallas, Texas.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> I was practicing commercial litigation defense for big corporations; I won\u2019t name any of them right now and I did a\u2014I found myself doing a lot of pro bono work which is free work for clients who can\u2019t pay and a lot of family law, actually.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> And so, I found myself really not motivated by making money and helping big corporations make money. I was more motivated by the heart of helping people.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> That\u2019s wonderful.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> So, I decided big law wasn\u2019t for me and I wanted to kind of change career paths and ultimately, I wanted to become a professor\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yes<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026because I really liked teaching but before I did that, I got my Master\u2019s of Law and I joined a small boutique law firm in Austin, Texas while my husband finished his graduate degree and I was practicing domestic violence law.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> So, I was helping women and children, mostly\u2014we did have male clients, as well but mostly women and children\u2014to escape very violent situations and it was really rewarding word but it was very stressful and so, I enjoyed doing that but I only did it for a short time\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026for various reasons. One of which was that my husband graduated and we both went on the job market. We ended up here at University of Illinois and I was at the law school teaching mostly legal research and writing for ten years. I did teach a little of domestic violence and sexual orientation and the law\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026and contracts and a bunch of other things and then I decided to get my Master\u2019s of Library Science degree.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Hey!<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> And right away, I went to Career Services and said, \u201cHey, what can I do with, you know, a law degree and an MLS degree?\u201d and they said, \u201cOh well, you can be a Copyright Librarian\u201d and my first response to that was that sounds horrible. I just thought I don\u2019t want to do that because, you know, when you hear copyright you think I\u2019m going to be looking at legalese all day.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Right<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to be looking at contracts. I know a lot about contracts, don\u2019t get me wrong. They\u2019re not really fun.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> No, I can\u2019t imagine they would be.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> They\u2019re okay but they\u2019re, you know, I didn\u2019t want to shuffle paper all day.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> No<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> And I thought that was the job of a Copyright Librarian.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Right<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Because I didn\u2019t know, and so, I thought, \u201cWell, okay, I\u2019ll give this, you know, the college try and I\u2019ll take copyright law at the law school as part of my MLS degree.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> So, I found myself in a law class with some of my former students\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> That\u2019s crazy!<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026and with a professor, Professor Heald, who was my former colleague.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Oh my gosh.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> So, I sat through that class and I found that it was really fun! Copyright law was fun! Who knew?<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Not me but that\u2019s great!<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> And it\u2019s, you know, like all law, it\u2019s full of stories but the stories involve things such as art, music, performance, dance\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026all these wonderful, interesting cases that are not boring at all.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> No<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> I found it really exciting and really, really a challenging area of the law too because there\u2019s a lot of uncertainty, especially in fair use, and I really found it challenging and fun and engaging and I decided, \u201cHey, copyright law is great, maybe I would like being a Copyright Librarian.\u201d<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> The truth of the matter is, I do. I really love it. I\u2019m feeling really lucky that I found this field that is so dynamic that you really don\u2019t know what you\u2019re going to get on a daily basis. You can get a question about author\u2019s rights and you can get a question about permissions, you can get a question about licensing, you can get a question about fair use. You can get a question about so many different things.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> And so, it\u2019s really fun and one of the most enjoyable things is\u2014okay, so I\u2019ll tell you the truth about being a lawyer:<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yes, please.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Most people don\u2019t like lawyers. This is not shocking.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> No, I don\u2019t think that is going to be a revelation but it\u2019s fun to hear from a lawyer.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> No, there\u2019s a lot of lawyers jokes out there and I think there may be a reason for that but, people are not usually happy to see a lawyer because a lawyer is usually there to say \u201cNo\u201d or they\u2019re there to say, \u201cPay me a lot of money.\u201d But people do like librarians!<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> They do!<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> They find us helpful and they come to us when they are at their wit\u2019s end and they just don\u2019t know what else to do.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> And often, what we do is we help them. We show them a path forward and we provide them with much needed guidance at a time of need.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yes<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Right? So, when we provide them some clear guidance and direction, they\u2019re usually quite thankful and it\u2019s a wonderful feeling to be thanked because as a lawyer, you are not thanked. Where in my job, as a Copyright Librarian, it\u2019s almost daily that I get a heartfelt thank you from a client or someone, a patron, and it\u2019s really rewarding.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> That is wonderful.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> So, I really enjoy that aspect of it. I also, have a wonderful group of colleagues.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yes, I wanted to ask. Are you amongst several lawyers amongst your colleagues? What does it take to be a Copyright Librarian? Do you have to have a law degree?<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Those are good questions. So\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> I hope so.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026when I talk about colleagues as Copyright Librarians, I\u2019m talking about national and international Copyright Librarians. I\u2019m the only Copyright Librarian at the University of Illinois and I\u2019m the only one we\u2019ve ever had\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026who\u2019s full-time doing copyright librarianship.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> That\u2019s incredible.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> The copyright librarians, they\u2019re such a great group of people. Again, I think they\u2019re driven by helping people.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yes<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> And a lot of them are lawyers, but I will say this: there are some of us who don\u2019t have a law degree at all, and you really don\u2019t need one to do this job. What you need is you need to enjoy challenge because it\u2019s not going to be easy.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Oh boy!<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> But if you\u2019re up for a challenge and you really enjoy the challenge and you\u2019re willing to put the time in to really learn the field, you really don\u2019t need to be a lawyer and there are folks out there who are just as well versed in copyright librarianship and copyright law as I am who don\u2019t have a J.D. I\u2019m thinking of Eric Harbeson as a notable librarian. He\u2019s a music librarian at Colorado-Boulder. He actually went to the iSchool.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Hey!<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> And he is a phenomenal librarian and knows he could argue me to the table about copyright law. Now, I\u2019m not going to say he would necessarily, you know, prove me wrong or anything but we can go back and forth, and he can hold his own because he knows the law that well.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah. You\u2019ve talked about what an amazing career this would be, but can you give us, sort of, a day in the life? Can you give us some of the questions you might receive as a Copyright Librarian?<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Sure. So, in a given day I might get questions from, for instance, someone who wants to put on a public performance of a musical work, maybe, a dance troop or music troop and they\u2019re worried about the performance rights, and the same day there may be a student group that wants to show a film and they don\u2019t know if they can do so without paying for public performance rights. Many of the films that we have streaming through the library, we do have public performance rights for.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> That\u2019s great.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> But people don\u2019t necessarily know that.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> No<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> I might, also, have a professor who wants to make copies of a certain work and put them on their course reserve page and they\u2019re not sure if they need to pay a licensing fee to do that.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Right<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> And then the same day, I might have a student who is working on an article and is thinking about publishing it and maybe they don\u2019t understand what they need to do in order to do that. For instance, maybe someone is writing a dissertation and they plan to publish their dissertation as a whole but they also want to publish part of it as book chapters.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> So, they need to think carefully about that and reserving the right to use the chapters in their dissertation when they actually compile the whole thing or else, they might have to go back and ask for permission from each publisher.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> So, there are many different issues.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> What a day!<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> That would be a pretty busy day, but I\u2019ve had busy days like that. But, I\u2019m always happy to help them and they\u2019re usually happy to get some sort of guidance.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> So, for lay people listening, like myself, what is the basic knowledge of copyright that you think we should have?<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good question. So, I think as librarians\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yes<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026I\u2019m going to talk to the librarians here\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yes, hello, we\u2019re listening!<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Yes, not general lay people because generally that would be different.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yes<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> But I do think as librarians there are a few key things. The biggest thing I would say is to understand how copyright is formed.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yes<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Because today, we don\u2019t have any formalities that are required. So, in other words, you don\u2019t have to put a copyright symbol on your work.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> You don\u2019t have to file it with the Copyright Office, you don\u2019t have to renew your registration. Those things\u2014now, some of those things are helpful.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> The copyright symbol is helpful to put people on notice and it is helpful to register your work because if you don\u2019t, you will forfeit statuary damages and you will not be able to sue anyone. So, there are prerequisites to suing people and getting certain damages, but you don\u2019t have to put it on your work to have a copyright.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Ahh<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> And the other thing that I would say is really important is to understand fair use, which is very complicated but not so complicated that you can\u2019t understand it.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Good<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> So, I think people should try to understand fair use. I think, they should look at Section 108\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Hmm<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026those are the library exceptions that allow libraries to make, well, they allow library patrons to make copies on our copy machine.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> That\u2019s very good!<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> They allow us to engage in interlibrary loan, which is really important.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> That\u2019s huge.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> They allow us to make copies for preservation and archival uses.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> And they tell us when we can make those copies available to patrons.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> So, those are things that, I think, are really important. Those sections and then the Right of First Sale, I think, is really important because that\u2019s what allows us to lend books in the first place.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Great<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Right? So, the first sale doctrine says that once I have sold a book then and you have bought it, you\u2019re allowed to do whatever you want with it.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> You can sell it to somebody else, you can give it to somebody else, you can put it in your free library in your backyard.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Right? You can do whatever you want. That\u2019s why libraries in the U.S. can lend books that in copyright. We bought them\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026and then we can lend them.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Now we can\u2019t\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Is that not true everywhere?<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> It\u2019s not. Well, okay, it is true but what happens is there are things that are called Public Lending Rights that are employed in other nations and what happens there is that they have to then collect money to a general fund that then redistributed to authors.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> And in the U.S., we do not have that. So, once a library buys a book, they can lend it as much as they want, that particular copy\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yes<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026not multiple copies\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> No<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026that particular copy without paying any other fees.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Whereas in other countries, such as Europe\u2014you might have countries in Europe I should say. Saying Europe is a country is inaccurate, but in countries in Europe they would have to collect funds for the authors\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Wow<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026for those lending and that sounds good on principle\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> It does but\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026but it can be really tricky because how do you determine how much any given author gets. There has been\u2014some people say those funds are not well spent or managed.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> And in general, I\u2014it\u2019s not as good for the public\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> No<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026because it\u2019s harder for them to then get access to those books\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026and it makes it more expensive for libraries to lend books.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> So, I\u2019m very happy with the right of for sale.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> And the broad rights it gives us in the U.S. So, that\u2019s another thing, I would say is important to know. I think, the face-to-face teaching is really helpful if you\u2019re in an academic library\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Definitely<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026or if you\u2019re in a school library.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> The K-12 level, it\u2019s really helpful to know that.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> And that falls under fair use?<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> No, that\u2014there\u2019s a separate section. It\u2019s Section 110-1 that gives you the right to perform or display any work in the context of face-to-face teaching which means in the classroom with students at a given time.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> That\u2019s incredible.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Yeah, so that\u2019s how, for instance, if our library buys a copy of a movie\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yes<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026then a professor can show it in their classroom without having any other license\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026or without having paid any other fee. Our copyright law in the U.S. is very friendly to educators, researchers\u2026<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yeah<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> \u2026 the public, libraries. There are a lot of great things about our copyright laws. It\u2019s a really nice balance between authors rights and the rights of the public.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> That\u2019s fantastic. That\u2019s very cool. Sara, thank you so much for being on this podcast. I really appreciate it.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Well, thank you for having me. It was very enjoyable, and I encourage anyone who has additional questions for me to send me an email, look me up on the web. I am always happy to talk to people about copyright.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Yes! And do you want to plug your podcast one more time at the end of this?<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Sara:<\/strong> Sure. So, you can find my podcast called Copyright Chat at iTunes and I\u2019ve been told the easiest way is to search for my name Sara Benson with no H.<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\"><strong>Billy:<\/strong> Thank you, again.<\/div>\n<div style=\"background-color:#e7e7e7;padding:1rem .5rem;margin: 0 -15px\">It Takes a Campus is a podcast brought to you by the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign\u2019s Scholarly Commons located in the Main Library. If you want more from us, be sure to check out our blog \u201cCommons Knowledge\u201d at publish.illinois.edu\/commonsknowledge and follow us on Twitter at ScholCommons. That\u2019s S C H O L Commons. The opening and closing song is \u201cTranquility Base\u201d by A. A. Aalto. You can find their album \u201cBright Colors\u201d in the free music archive by searching for A.A. Aalto at freemusicarchive.org.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div><\/div><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In this episode, Scholarly Commons graduate assistant Billy Tringali interviews Sara Benson, the copyright librarian at the University of Illinois.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":25,"featured_media":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"http:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommons\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/91\/2022\/03\/SaraBenson_ItTakesACampus_Episode03.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:19:44","filesize":"18.43M","filesize_raw":"19321169","date_recorded":"2020-09-14","explicit":"","block":""},"tags":[],"series":[18],"class_list":["post-175","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","hentry","series-it-takes-a-campus"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":false,"episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommons\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/91\/2022\/03\/sc-podcast-cover.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommons\/podcast-download\/175\/it-takes-sara-benson","player_link":"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommons\/podcast-player\/175\/it-takes-sara-benson","audio_player":"<a class=\"wp-embedded-audio\" href=\"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommons\/podcast-player\/175\/it-takes-sara-benson\">https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommons\/podcast-player\/175\/it-takes-sara-benson<\/a>","episode_data":{"playerMode":"dark","subscribeUrls":{"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.google.com\/feed\/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubGlicmFyeS5pbGxpbm9pcy5lZHUvc2MvZmVlZC9wb2RjYXN0","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"pocketcasts":{"key":"pocketcasts","url":"https:\/\/pca.st\/tp3vi4gn","label":"PocketCasts","class":"pocketcasts","icon":"pocketcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0lHBUBSyk21OmqwtjlBDHD?si=BmDkTb5IRYetkj6NxP49mw","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"stitcher":{"key":"stitcher","url":"https:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/show\/it-takes-a-campus","label":"Stitcher","class":"stitcher","icon":"stitcher.png"},"itunes":{"key":"itunes","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/it-takes-a-campus\/id1540325166","label":"iTunes","class":"itunes","icon":"itunes.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommons\/feed\/podcast\/it-takes-a-campus","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"wYvNLZsnVT\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommons\/podcast\/it-takes-sara-benson\/\">It Takes Sara Benson<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wordpress.library.illinois.edu\/scholarlycommons\/podcast\/it-takes-sara-benson\/embed\/#?secret=wYvNLZsnVT\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;It Takes Sara Benson&#8221; &#8212; Media Commons\" data-secret=\"wYvNLZsnVT\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script type=\"text\/javascript\">\n\/* <![CDATA[ *\/\n\/*! 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